By Abdullah Ghadawi
(Zaman Al Wasl)- One of the difficult situations experienced by the Syrian opposition negotiator is that he sits in front of a team of the regime`s executioners searching for a political solution and this negotiator realizes that it is almost impossible with a regime that has forcibly displaced about ten million Syrians, killed around a million and executed thousands of detainees.
This seat is controlled by the Syrian hard circumstances which impose the victim and the executer to sit face to face.
Zaman al-Wasl interviewed Chief negotiator Mohamad Sabra , who assured that he knew how to deal with Bashar al-Jaafari's provocations and how to present his political and legal files.
Rival Syrian camps due in Geneva ahead of talks
He said that the legitimate question is not when Assad leaves, at the beginning of the transitional period or at its end, but where he leaves stressing that his place is the international criminal court…to details
Z: Does not the position of Chief negotiator remind you of the long path of the Palestinian issue?
S: The conditions of emerging this term in the Syrian crisis are different. The first mention of Chief negotiator was in 2014 when the head of the delegation was the head of the coalition and at that time we did not want him to enter the negotiation chamber unless Bashar al-Assad came in person. And we had to take a procedural step to prevent the head of the coalition from being the negotiator one. Then the idea of chief negotiators was born. Since that time, we have received notes about this name and projection of Palestinian issue on the Syrian crisis. In fact, we do not want to be dominated by the obsession "term" or the case of "croaking" in Syrian crisis, for there are a big difference between the two cases. In Syria the political solution does not depend on negotiators' cleverness, but on the will of the international community to solve.
Z: Do you think that the opposition current speech on the necessity of Assad`s leaving is worthy any more after the defeats, the opposition has not changed its speech despite changing the balances in Syria?
S: The opposition is not defeated yet and al-Assad has not won also, consequently the issue is not concerned with victories or defeats. When Syrians came out, they did not demand the downfall of the regime , that was not the target then . They raised slogans demanding freedom, dignity, justice and the restoration of the state. These four standard logos were the title of the Syrian revolution from March until August 2011. However, what happened next of killing and brutality made Syrians realize that they cannot cross over to the four logos as long as this regime exists both in the transition period or later. Let me say that the issue is not a pre-position, but the analysis of the reality that such existence of this regime hinders the democratic transition process in Syria. In another meaning, overthrowing of this regime has become the only way to cross into the national state.
Z: Do not you see that the overthrow of the regime by going to Geneva is a reverie, how can the system delegation negotiate on dropping itself?
S: Let me first clarify my personal attitude: the legitimate question is not the departure of Bashar al-Assad at the beginning or end of the transitional phase, but where he leaves. To me, it must be to the international criminal court and not to his exile in anywhere else in the world. While my negotiating attitude is that there is a political process announced by the United Nations in Geneva statement, which in the ninth paragraph talking about the political transition process and formation of transitional ruling committee that exercises all the powers in the state, what implies dismantling the whole system and replacing it with a new one " Authority Interim Governing “, that practices all manifestations of sovereignty. We went to Geneva to negotiate the security council resolutions and not to negotiate with Bashar al-Assad to overthrow himself. There is a political process adopted by the United Nations, which we should work with.
Z: Why is the opposition obsessed with changing its delegates, while the regime, in most of his delegations, preserves its negotiators?
S: This is not adequately accurate because there are fixed people in all previous delegations of the opposition, as the regime`s ones are also subject to changes, but media focuses on the faces of the first row like Bashar al-Jaffrey and Ahmad Arnous and the rest of the other faces. However, there have been key figures in the opposition since the beginning of negotiating in 2014, like Nazir al-Hakim, who is still in the negotiating delegation, and Hussam Al-Hafiz, who existed in 2014 and 2016. There have been around 5 fixed people since 2014.
Z: Do you want this position or is it a matter of assigning?
S: In fact, it is assigned by the High Negotiation Committee and not my desire or my personal admission. I have been within this process since 2014 and I think this has been from my choosing criteria.
Z: You are known as an organized person who has all required files to condemn the regime, while you have a defect of being easily provoked specially if you are going to be in front of a rude diplomat person like Bashar al-Jaffrey…so are you ready for the battle of the nerves?
S: I was present in 2014 negotiations and in front of al-Jaffrey , and within negotiating tactics you have to use them carefully and wisely . Honestly, I do not think that the assessment you mentioned is accurate because there is a difference between the responding to provocations or the root of the situation. I was inside the negotiating process and we know how it is managed, especially our experience in 2014 was good and remarkable and we were the most compatible with international standards.
Z: Do you read in the art and science of negotiation?
S: In this period, I am preparing some vital and sensitive files according to the Syrian crisis data, but reading about negotiating experiences was earlier and we passed this stage. In 2013, some opposition figures were subjected to training courses in negotiating art on the highest levels and we benefited from the International Liberation Movements and the study of historical models and the similar cases of the Syrian crisis.
(Zaman Al Wasl)- One of the difficult situations experienced by the Syrian opposition negotiator is that he sits in front of a team of the regime`s executioners searching for a political solution and this negotiator realizes that it is almost impossible with a regime that has forcibly displaced about ten million Syrians, killed around a million and executed thousands of detainees.
This seat is controlled by the Syrian hard circumstances which impose the victim and the executer to sit face to face.
Zaman al-Wasl interviewed Chief negotiator Mohamad Sabra , who assured that he knew how to deal with Bashar al-Jaafari's provocations and how to present his political and legal files.
Rival Syrian camps due in Geneva ahead of talks
He said that the legitimate question is not when Assad leaves, at the beginning of the transitional period or at its end, but where he leaves stressing that his place is the international criminal court…to details
Z: Does not the position of Chief negotiator remind you of the long path of the Palestinian issue?
S: The conditions of emerging this term in the Syrian crisis are different. The first mention of Chief negotiator was in 2014 when the head of the delegation was the head of the coalition and at that time we did not want him to enter the negotiation chamber unless Bashar al-Assad came in person. And we had to take a procedural step to prevent the head of the coalition from being the negotiator one. Then the idea of chief negotiators was born. Since that time, we have received notes about this name and projection of Palestinian issue on the Syrian crisis. In fact, we do not want to be dominated by the obsession "term" or the case of "croaking" in Syrian crisis, for there are a big difference between the two cases. In Syria the political solution does not depend on negotiators' cleverness, but on the will of the international community to solve.
Z: Do you think that the opposition current speech on the necessity of Assad`s leaving is worthy any more after the defeats, the opposition has not changed its speech despite changing the balances in Syria?
S: The opposition is not defeated yet and al-Assad has not won also, consequently the issue is not concerned with victories or defeats. When Syrians came out, they did not demand the downfall of the regime , that was not the target then . They raised slogans demanding freedom, dignity, justice and the restoration of the state. These four standard logos were the title of the Syrian revolution from March until August 2011. However, what happened next of killing and brutality made Syrians realize that they cannot cross over to the four logos as long as this regime exists both in the transition period or later. Let me say that the issue is not a pre-position, but the analysis of the reality that such existence of this regime hinders the democratic transition process in Syria. In another meaning, overthrowing of this regime has become the only way to cross into the national state.
Z: Do not you see that the overthrow of the regime by going to Geneva is a reverie, how can the system delegation negotiate on dropping itself?
S: Let me first clarify my personal attitude: the legitimate question is not the departure of Bashar al-Assad at the beginning or end of the transitional phase, but where he leaves. To me, it must be to the international criminal court and not to his exile in anywhere else in the world. While my negotiating attitude is that there is a political process announced by the United Nations in Geneva statement, which in the ninth paragraph talking about the political transition process and formation of transitional ruling committee that exercises all the powers in the state, what implies dismantling the whole system and replacing it with a new one " Authority Interim Governing “, that practices all manifestations of sovereignty. We went to Geneva to negotiate the security council resolutions and not to negotiate with Bashar al-Assad to overthrow himself. There is a political process adopted by the United Nations, which we should work with.
Z: Why is the opposition obsessed with changing its delegates, while the regime, in most of his delegations, preserves its negotiators?
S: This is not adequately accurate because there are fixed people in all previous delegations of the opposition, as the regime`s ones are also subject to changes, but media focuses on the faces of the first row like Bashar al-Jaffrey and Ahmad Arnous and the rest of the other faces. However, there have been key figures in the opposition since the beginning of negotiating in 2014, like Nazir al-Hakim, who is still in the negotiating delegation, and Hussam Al-Hafiz, who existed in 2014 and 2016. There have been around 5 fixed people since 2014.
Z: Do you want this position or is it a matter of assigning?
S: In fact, it is assigned by the High Negotiation Committee and not my desire or my personal admission. I have been within this process since 2014 and I think this has been from my choosing criteria.
Z: You are known as an organized person who has all required files to condemn the regime, while you have a defect of being easily provoked specially if you are going to be in front of a rude diplomat person like Bashar al-Jaffrey…so are you ready for the battle of the nerves?
S: I was present in 2014 negotiations and in front of al-Jaffrey , and within negotiating tactics you have to use them carefully and wisely . Honestly, I do not think that the assessment you mentioned is accurate because there is a difference between the responding to provocations or the root of the situation. I was inside the negotiating process and we know how it is managed, especially our experience in 2014 was good and remarkable and we were the most compatible with international standards.
Z: Do you read in the art and science of negotiation?
S: In this period, I am preparing some vital and sensitive files according to the Syrian crisis data, but reading about negotiating experiences was earlier and we passed this stage. In 2013, some opposition figures were subjected to training courses in negotiating art on the highest levels and we benefited from the International Liberation Movements and the study of historical models and the similar cases of the Syrian crisis.
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