By Abdullah Ghadawi
(Zaman Al Wasl)- Mustafa al-Sabbagh, the former National Coalition Secretary-General said that opposition’s absence from international interest is due to the lack of regional and international desire to change the regime, and the opposition’s failure to provide indicators of their ability to manage the Syrian state as alternatives to the regime.
In an interview with Zaman al-Wasl, al-Sabbagh said that the Syrian regime is more fragmented now than before, and al-Assad has proved to the guarantors that he is unable to maintain the military gains in the event there is no Russian air control.
Al-Sabbagh explained that the complexity of the political and military scene, other than the different priorities of supporters prompted him to move away and then resign. He confirmed that is the first opposition member who underwent financial review. So to the details of the interview:
1- After the Khan Shaykhun massacre and the failed results of Geneva talks. Do you support continued negotiations with the regime?
The regime today has become more fragmented than ever before. It has proved to its guarantors that it is unable to preserve the military gains made in the event Russian air cover is absent. This is what we saw with the events of Damascus, the villages of Hama and Deraa which resisted the zero-military solution strategy and tried to break the equation that the Russians have struggled to entrench since the battle of Aleppo. On the other hand, the regime has been unable to control its local and foreign factions which have grown, and with their growth a network of security benefits and economies of war has developed.
On the other hand, the Syrian opposition is not in a position of strength due to the events of the Khan Shaykhun massacre and what followed from media pressure on the Russians and demands them for them to abandon al-Assad. The opposition’s absence from the circle of international thinking as an alternative to governing is still valid for two reasons first, the lack of regional and international desire to change the regime, and second the opposition’s failure to provide indicators of its ability to manage the state.
There is no option other than to go and continue political struggle and work. We are struggling to invest these moments to gain the greatest national gains possible. Absence from the political scene has previously contributed in giving the Russians the opportunity to increase the dilution of the opposition, which has become an opposition that does not even agree on overthrowing the regime, such as the Cairo, Khmeimim and Astana platforms.
-The Syrian Factor-
2 – Some see that the decision to negotiate is no longer in the hands of the opposition, but in the hands of some regional countries and other western countries. What do you say to this?
It is true the Syrian file was circulated when the military revolutions started, and it began witnessing significant changes and transformations in the positions of states. The effectiveness of most regional countries active in Syrian affairs was reduced. However, the talks in Astana, Geneva and the cease-fire agreements proved that the Syrian actor on the ground, and civilian forces, in particular, cannot be easily forced by international actors. These actors respond realistically to the international demands, as proven through the work of local councils, civil society, civil and popular organizations that showed that there are margins for political effectiveness, even if reduced. They are still important cards that can affect the path of the solution.
Breaking Obama's Rules
3 - Many saw American strike as a shift in American policy, how do you see the issue?
The American milieu is witnessing intensive discussions about al-Assad’s fate since the Khan Shaykhun massacre.
The discussion is characterized by its opacity at times and its insistence at others. But if we deal with the results of the American executive policy in Syria, we find that the recent intervention must be categorized as a reaction, and it is related to taking advantage of the circumstances to contradict the previous American administration’s policies. It also has the possibility of establishing a range of open options in Syria, as the American administration is starting to break Obama’s policies in Syria which will contribute to disrupting the Russian and Iranian policy. These strikes also predict the possibility of escalating the Russian-American conflict, especially after Moscow announced the halting of the cooperation and coordination agreement regarding takeoffs and landings in Syria.
Within this constellation, there is a clear shift from the Obama administration, and there is seriousness in dealing with the issue, but US policy should be approached based on its cautious and shifting pragmatism. The US’s position on the regime seems more sophisticated than previous approaches and insinuates steps that must be taken seriously by the opposition which is absent from the current American decision-maker mentality.
-Correcting the National Council’s Course-
4 – At the start of the formation of the Coalition, you were leading from the forefront, now we no longer see you in the first row of the coalition leadership, why has your position changed?
I started working with a group of businessmen, technocrats and specialists from the beginning of the Syrian movement to provide direct services to the Syrians, build institutional capacities and competencies, and empower local councils as a national project which stem from the will of the local population in each region and city. This was the goal of establishing the Syrian Business Forum in 2012 and then establishing the Syrian Forum and its institutions. The forum sought to create a platform for gathering emerging Syrian competencies in a specialized and institutional manner which contributes to staff development and local councils’ empowerment.
After contributing to the formation of the National Council, I preferred not to be in the front row and to support the serious and loyal members of the Council in their dedication to professional political action. However, the intransigence which happened in the National Council, and its inability to deal with the administrative and judicial realities in Syria, prompted me and other public figures, which I hold in high esteem, to work to correct the imbalance by forming the coalition. The main objective [of the Coalition] was not only to exceed the Council’s weak performance, but to establish an institutional framework based on two principles:
The separation of powers through the Coalition acting as a temporary legislative council, and forming the Syrian Interim Government inside Syria as an executive power monitored by the Coalition. The second principle is based on expanding practices and political participation by building local council structures in a manner that allows for the establishment of expanded decentralization and the direct participation of Syrians in managing their own affairs.
I entered the Coalition to try to offer Forum team’s modest experience in administrative and professional work, but the complexity of the political and military scene, in addition to internal impediments such as its fragile structure, polarization, and friction-whether political among blocs or external caused by the supporting countries’ differing priorities- prompted me to take a back seat. Then later I resigned and moved away to devote my time to empowering the Syrian Forum’s six institutions, as well as the unity of the local councils.
Recently, we conducted numerous internal and in-depth reviews within the Forum, and we conducted an achievements evaluation. We are working today place the review process results into action by adopting measures that will help to correct and mend our internal work to cope with the length of the crisis and to ensure our country’s long sustainable development and advancement.
-National Coalition and the HNC-
5 – The contradictions and disagreements between the Coalition and the High Committee were clear. Do you think there is overlap in the roles and tasks?
The High Committee was formed as a result of the Riyadh Conference in which the Coalition and other political components participated. The High Committee’s goal was limited to forming the negotiating team and supervising its work. Theoretically, there should be no overlap in roles and tasks.
I always call on the Coalition and the High Committee to agree and work together as the political space is massive, and their work intersects and is complementary. So, it is necessary to focus on political achievements and stay away from blame and keeping scores. The phase requires coherent and central political action and a great and historical responsibility.
-The Relationship with Saudi Arabia-
6 - Your relationship with Saudi Arabia has been tense for years, and you left the country due to political positions. Now it appears as if the water is flowing once again especially after Saudi Arabia supported the Ihsan Foundation and your meeting with Abdullah al-Rabiah, advisor to the to the Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques, so what has changed?
Any observer is aware of Saudi Arabia's pioneering role, along with some Gulf countries, in supporting the Syrian people, not only at the humanitarian level but also politically and militarily. In the Syrian Forum and its institutions, we have worked to develop and build the internal efficiency of the institution and its expansion to most of Syria. We conduct periodical reviews and evaluations, and we constantly correct our path, so the Syrian Forum is an active presence in Syria through more than eight offices and a thousand employees. As part of our aims, we work on establishing a political culture that promotes the rule of law, democratic practices and transparency. The Forum has made many achievements as a national institution with a Syrian team, becoming the preferred partner for distributing international humanitarian support, implementing development and agricultural projects, building schools and sanitation networks, women's empowerment centers and youth centers. By choosing Ihsan as a key partner in distributing humanitarian aid and suggesting vital projects for inside Syria, the King Salman Humanitarian and Aid Relief Center opened the way for a most successful partnership.
We greatly value the role and management of the Center in designing programs that move beneficiaries in Syria from a situation of aid dependency to one of work and production. Ihsan also carries out projects for German, French, British and American organizations, as well as for United Nations organizations.
7- Mustafa al-Sabbagh is considered one of the engineers of the local councils, and these councils have received financial support from certain countries. Are you ready for a financial review?
The local councils were established at an important historical stage when the general work shifted from the local coordinating committees and revolutionary councils, which work to mobilize and organize civil revolutionary action. The local councils came to fill an urgent need for administrative and judicial action given the vacuum left by the regime in opposition areas especially as the regime left to create for chaos and give space for extremist factions.
No single person or organization can claim that they planned and established the local councils, nor can anyone deny the great role played by the local coordination committees as well as several activists in pushing for the formation and activation of the councils such as martyr Omar Aziz, Professor Razan Zaitouneh and others. Based on this the councils that emerged were a mix of improvisation and organization that reflected the natural development of emerging local leaders. The councils existed before the revolution, but they lacked the most important elements represented in the democratic election of its members and people’s ability to hold the councils accountable. The Syrian Forum certainly had a role in supporting and empowering local councils politically and administratively. The Forum also financed several council projects, but support was also provided from Gulf countries and international organizations.
Regarding the issue of financial review, for the local councils, promoting transparency and the activating governance tools is the top priority for local councils units supported by the Syrian Forum. On the personal political level, as the first secretary-general of the National Coalition from November 2012- July 2013, I was the first Syrian opposition figure to submit myself to a full and detailed financial audit by one of KPMG, a global financial auditing firm. I submitted the report to the Coalition head before the General Assembly. No such audit had been carried out before nor has a similar one been carried out since my term in the Coalition, or in the second Interim Government, or after it. Since its establishment in 2012, the Syrian Forum and its institutions are subject to audit by KPMG, as well as submitted to administrative and operational scrutiny.
The United Nations organizations awarded the Ihsan Foundation the highest ranking in governance, transparency and administrative efficiency. It has become an example of Forum work and its approach has been taught in trainings to over 190 Syrian organizations in 2016.
8. How can the Coalition be more effective than it is?
The Coalition was formed during certain objective conditions which were prevailing in the Syrian and regional scene in 2012 and which no longer exist today. As such, the Coalition’s continuation in the same goals and mechanisms places it outside the influential scene. In truth, the coalition should focus on supporting and empowering local councils and recognizing them as a de facto authority. The Interim Government’s role should be to coordinate and build on its work, and to complete aspects that the councils cannot. The Council’s institutions must complete the work of constructing a legitimate alternative option, and it must succeed in all the challenges they face, especially replacing the current the military guardianship and supervision relationship with a security and protection relationship. The councils should work to withdraw the state’s functions and provide the best model to serve Syrians under any cease-fire agreement, as whoever gains the most politically is better able to serve Syrians locally.
(Zaman Al Wasl)- Mustafa al-Sabbagh, the former National Coalition Secretary-General said that opposition’s absence from international interest is due to the lack of regional and international desire to change the regime, and the opposition’s failure to provide indicators of their ability to manage the Syrian state as alternatives to the regime.
In an interview with Zaman al-Wasl, al-Sabbagh said that the Syrian regime is more fragmented now than before, and al-Assad has proved to the guarantors that he is unable to maintain the military gains in the event there is no Russian air control.
Al-Sabbagh explained that the complexity of the political and military scene, other than the different priorities of supporters prompted him to move away and then resign. He confirmed that is the first opposition member who underwent financial review. So to the details of the interview:
1- After the Khan Shaykhun massacre and the failed results of Geneva talks. Do you support continued negotiations with the regime?
The regime today has become more fragmented than ever before. It has proved to its guarantors that it is unable to preserve the military gains made in the event Russian air cover is absent. This is what we saw with the events of Damascus, the villages of Hama and Deraa which resisted the zero-military solution strategy and tried to break the equation that the Russians have struggled to entrench since the battle of Aleppo. On the other hand, the regime has been unable to control its local and foreign factions which have grown, and with their growth a network of security benefits and economies of war has developed.
On the other hand, the Syrian opposition is not in a position of strength due to the events of the Khan Shaykhun massacre and what followed from media pressure on the Russians and demands them for them to abandon al-Assad. The opposition’s absence from the circle of international thinking as an alternative to governing is still valid for two reasons first, the lack of regional and international desire to change the regime, and second the opposition’s failure to provide indicators of its ability to manage the state.
There is no option other than to go and continue political struggle and work. We are struggling to invest these moments to gain the greatest national gains possible. Absence from the political scene has previously contributed in giving the Russians the opportunity to increase the dilution of the opposition, which has become an opposition that does not even agree on overthrowing the regime, such as the Cairo, Khmeimim and Astana platforms.
-The Syrian Factor-
2 – Some see that the decision to negotiate is no longer in the hands of the opposition, but in the hands of some regional countries and other western countries. What do you say to this?
It is true the Syrian file was circulated when the military revolutions started, and it began witnessing significant changes and transformations in the positions of states. The effectiveness of most regional countries active in Syrian affairs was reduced. However, the talks in Astana, Geneva and the cease-fire agreements proved that the Syrian actor on the ground, and civilian forces, in particular, cannot be easily forced by international actors. These actors respond realistically to the international demands, as proven through the work of local councils, civil society, civil and popular organizations that showed that there are margins for political effectiveness, even if reduced. They are still important cards that can affect the path of the solution.
Breaking Obama's Rules
3 - Many saw American strike as a shift in American policy, how do you see the issue?
The American milieu is witnessing intensive discussions about al-Assad’s fate since the Khan Shaykhun massacre.
The discussion is characterized by its opacity at times and its insistence at others. But if we deal with the results of the American executive policy in Syria, we find that the recent intervention must be categorized as a reaction, and it is related to taking advantage of the circumstances to contradict the previous American administration’s policies. It also has the possibility of establishing a range of open options in Syria, as the American administration is starting to break Obama’s policies in Syria which will contribute to disrupting the Russian and Iranian policy. These strikes also predict the possibility of escalating the Russian-American conflict, especially after Moscow announced the halting of the cooperation and coordination agreement regarding takeoffs and landings in Syria.
Within this constellation, there is a clear shift from the Obama administration, and there is seriousness in dealing with the issue, but US policy should be approached based on its cautious and shifting pragmatism. The US’s position on the regime seems more sophisticated than previous approaches and insinuates steps that must be taken seriously by the opposition which is absent from the current American decision-maker mentality.
-Correcting the National Council’s Course-
4 – At the start of the formation of the Coalition, you were leading from the forefront, now we no longer see you in the first row of the coalition leadership, why has your position changed?
I started working with a group of businessmen, technocrats and specialists from the beginning of the Syrian movement to provide direct services to the Syrians, build institutional capacities and competencies, and empower local councils as a national project which stem from the will of the local population in each region and city. This was the goal of establishing the Syrian Business Forum in 2012 and then establishing the Syrian Forum and its institutions. The forum sought to create a platform for gathering emerging Syrian competencies in a specialized and institutional manner which contributes to staff development and local councils’ empowerment.
After contributing to the formation of the National Council, I preferred not to be in the front row and to support the serious and loyal members of the Council in their dedication to professional political action. However, the intransigence which happened in the National Council, and its inability to deal with the administrative and judicial realities in Syria, prompted me and other public figures, which I hold in high esteem, to work to correct the imbalance by forming the coalition. The main objective [of the Coalition] was not only to exceed the Council’s weak performance, but to establish an institutional framework based on two principles:
The separation of powers through the Coalition acting as a temporary legislative council, and forming the Syrian Interim Government inside Syria as an executive power monitored by the Coalition. The second principle is based on expanding practices and political participation by building local council structures in a manner that allows for the establishment of expanded decentralization and the direct participation of Syrians in managing their own affairs.
I entered the Coalition to try to offer Forum team’s modest experience in administrative and professional work, but the complexity of the political and military scene, in addition to internal impediments such as its fragile structure, polarization, and friction-whether political among blocs or external caused by the supporting countries’ differing priorities- prompted me to take a back seat. Then later I resigned and moved away to devote my time to empowering the Syrian Forum’s six institutions, as well as the unity of the local councils.
Recently, we conducted numerous internal and in-depth reviews within the Forum, and we conducted an achievements evaluation. We are working today place the review process results into action by adopting measures that will help to correct and mend our internal work to cope with the length of the crisis and to ensure our country’s long sustainable development and advancement.
-National Coalition and the HNC-
5 – The contradictions and disagreements between the Coalition and the High Committee were clear. Do you think there is overlap in the roles and tasks?
The High Committee was formed as a result of the Riyadh Conference in which the Coalition and other political components participated. The High Committee’s goal was limited to forming the negotiating team and supervising its work. Theoretically, there should be no overlap in roles and tasks.
I always call on the Coalition and the High Committee to agree and work together as the political space is massive, and their work intersects and is complementary. So, it is necessary to focus on political achievements and stay away from blame and keeping scores. The phase requires coherent and central political action and a great and historical responsibility.
-The Relationship with Saudi Arabia-
6 - Your relationship with Saudi Arabia has been tense for years, and you left the country due to political positions. Now it appears as if the water is flowing once again especially after Saudi Arabia supported the Ihsan Foundation and your meeting with Abdullah al-Rabiah, advisor to the to the Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques, so what has changed?
Any observer is aware of Saudi Arabia's pioneering role, along with some Gulf countries, in supporting the Syrian people, not only at the humanitarian level but also politically and militarily. In the Syrian Forum and its institutions, we have worked to develop and build the internal efficiency of the institution and its expansion to most of Syria. We conduct periodical reviews and evaluations, and we constantly correct our path, so the Syrian Forum is an active presence in Syria through more than eight offices and a thousand employees. As part of our aims, we work on establishing a political culture that promotes the rule of law, democratic practices and transparency. The Forum has made many achievements as a national institution with a Syrian team, becoming the preferred partner for distributing international humanitarian support, implementing development and agricultural projects, building schools and sanitation networks, women's empowerment centers and youth centers. By choosing Ihsan as a key partner in distributing humanitarian aid and suggesting vital projects for inside Syria, the King Salman Humanitarian and Aid Relief Center opened the way for a most successful partnership.
We greatly value the role and management of the Center in designing programs that move beneficiaries in Syria from a situation of aid dependency to one of work and production. Ihsan also carries out projects for German, French, British and American organizations, as well as for United Nations organizations.
7- Mustafa al-Sabbagh is considered one of the engineers of the local councils, and these councils have received financial support from certain countries. Are you ready for a financial review?
The local councils were established at an important historical stage when the general work shifted from the local coordinating committees and revolutionary councils, which work to mobilize and organize civil revolutionary action. The local councils came to fill an urgent need for administrative and judicial action given the vacuum left by the regime in opposition areas especially as the regime left to create for chaos and give space for extremist factions.
No single person or organization can claim that they planned and established the local councils, nor can anyone deny the great role played by the local coordination committees as well as several activists in pushing for the formation and activation of the councils such as martyr Omar Aziz, Professor Razan Zaitouneh and others. Based on this the councils that emerged were a mix of improvisation and organization that reflected the natural development of emerging local leaders. The councils existed before the revolution, but they lacked the most important elements represented in the democratic election of its members and people’s ability to hold the councils accountable. The Syrian Forum certainly had a role in supporting and empowering local councils politically and administratively. The Forum also financed several council projects, but support was also provided from Gulf countries and international organizations.
Regarding the issue of financial review, for the local councils, promoting transparency and the activating governance tools is the top priority for local councils units supported by the Syrian Forum. On the personal political level, as the first secretary-general of the National Coalition from November 2012- July 2013, I was the first Syrian opposition figure to submit myself to a full and detailed financial audit by one of KPMG, a global financial auditing firm. I submitted the report to the Coalition head before the General Assembly. No such audit had been carried out before nor has a similar one been carried out since my term in the Coalition, or in the second Interim Government, or after it. Since its establishment in 2012, the Syrian Forum and its institutions are subject to audit by KPMG, as well as submitted to administrative and operational scrutiny.
The United Nations organizations awarded the Ihsan Foundation the highest ranking in governance, transparency and administrative efficiency. It has become an example of Forum work and its approach has been taught in trainings to over 190 Syrian organizations in 2016.
8. How can the Coalition be more effective than it is?
The Coalition was formed during certain objective conditions which were prevailing in the Syrian and regional scene in 2012 and which no longer exist today. As such, the Coalition’s continuation in the same goals and mechanisms places it outside the influential scene. In truth, the coalition should focus on supporting and empowering local councils and recognizing them as a de facto authority. The Interim Government’s role should be to coordinate and build on its work, and to complete aspects that the councils cannot. The Council’s institutions must complete the work of constructing a legitimate alternative option, and it must succeed in all the challenges they face, especially replacing the current the military guardianship and supervision relationship with a security and protection relationship. The councils should work to withdraw the state’s functions and provide the best model to serve Syrians under any cease-fire agreement, as whoever gains the most politically is better able to serve Syrians locally.
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